We trust people we feel are like us. Sharing our interests, experiences, and goals with Trump voters builds connection in spite of our political differences.
Wow! I was reading this to learn more about having good conversations about politics. Now I realize it will also help me have more productive conversations with my patients and their families. Thank you so much! 😊
Yes, I call this work the Special Sauce -- you can put it to work in almost any situation, with anyone. A lot of our work in Smart Politics does help folks deal with family situations polarized by politics, but I've noticed since I've been doing this work that it's improved my listening and connection skills in everyday life. Thank you, Elizabeth!
I tried all this, and it did work to build connection which turned into a close friendship. Looking back, I realized that he was never engaging in good faith. He wouldn’t read any information that I shared, even though I read and commented on what he shared with me. And then, at the end of the day, when 47’s actions started having an effect on me personally in several different ways, I realized that deep down, my friend and I had different values. He was MAGA and did not stand for empathy, justice, or compassion. He was happy that someone was causing harm on his behalf. He was OK with the destruction. That’s when I ended the friendship. I can’t be friends with fascists.
Hi Nancy, thank you for sharing that -- I appreciate that you're out there trying, and I understand how frustrating it can feel at times.
We don't ever ask anyone to do anything they feel strongly puts them at any sort of risk, emotional or otherwise. You know the situation and the person best, so it's very fair that you stepped back when you felt you had to.
I'd like to just add a couple thoughts:
-- It can be tough, especially these days, to get folks on the "other side" to read information we share with them -- they have a lot of defenses up against that (plus, who among us ever really gets through all the things folks share with us in good faith?). If you talk to this former friend again, or others, what happens if you hold off on sharing information until you've found enough common ground on topics you and they are closer to one another's views?
-- I completely understand that you don't want to "be friends with fascists," and it's so hard these days when folks we felt close to or have a shared past with begin saying things that seem to support what we consider to be fascism or authoritarianism. But as I've said before, if we can find the strength and (sometimes immense) patience to hang in there, the reason we want to have these conversations is to help others slowly change their views away from supporting fascism and authoritarianism.
The work of Smart Politics is often about doing just that: talking to people we may consider to be fascists and racists, etc. That may or may not be something you personally can do in every situation -- you know what's best for you -- but it can be our larger, idealistic goal.
Sometimes we have to take a deep breath and see if we can sort out where a person falls on what we consider to be the "fascism" (or other "-isms") scale. What do they believe that makes us consider them "fascist"? How deep does it run? Is it because they voted for Trump? Or because they don't speak out against his obvious authoritarianism? Or do they personally expound on what we consider to be clearly fascist beliefs? And how committed are they to those beliefs? How long have they embraced these views?
Degrees of challenges vary -- some folks may parrot Trump talking points we find upsetting and even fascistic, but their actual investment in that thinking may be relatively superficial. Others may be much more deeply and frighteningly devoted to those beliefs. After engaging and talking with them one-on-one, you are the best judge of where they might be on that scale and how much you can or are willing to do to stay connected with them.
I'll leave you with one note: What we each can do is based on our personal assessment of the other person's beliefs and our own emotional spoons. We can't all do everything for everyone. But on a larger scale, even some of the most hardcore racists and fascists have been changed over time through support from others, including the work of Darryl Davis (who has helped dozens of former Klan members, including leaders, leave the KKK), or the cases of former white supremists like Christian Picciolini and Adrianne (formerly Derek) Black who once led racist organizations and gangs and now teach others how to others out of those lives.
So I absolutely applaud you for making that effort, Nancy, and I understand if maybe you can't be friends with fascists right now, but if at all possible, don't give up on them completely -- it can be slow going with almost imperceivable results right away, but your presence in their lives (to whatever degree is safe for you) can sometimes be the thread or lifeline they someday use to bring themselves back out of it.
and yes, I just realized I'm all hopped up on coffee this weekend, and I rambled on instead of actually practicing the Smart Politics approach itself! Gah!
So if you'd like to chat more about this, Nancy, I'd ask you what it is that makes you feel your (former?) friend is a fascist?
Thanks for asking the question. Several statements of his led me to believe he is in thrall of fascism. One is open admiration for Viktor Orban and Javier Milei—“they’re doing great things for their country, and are very popular.” The other is frequent use of fascist memes, like sending me a photo of a marble, Classical statue, with the comment, “we used to make beautiful things .” Framing anything other than. Classical art as @degenerate” is a fascist talking point. He is getting all this from right wing media and I have watched as he has become more radicalized over the past few years. The hatred of “DEI,” framing Musk as a champion of free speech, complete adoption of right wing narrative for January 6, etc. etc. etc. the toxicity of it all. It’s sad, because he’s one of the smartest people I’ve known and I just cannot bear to watch the destruction of his mind any longer.
I love what you're trying to do in AL with the folks around you -- that's such an important part of this work and attitude. Thank you!
As I rambled on at great length in response to Nancy above, I completely understand if we feel we have to "triage" different types of folks who seem to have gone much further down some dark rabbit holes into things like QAnon, white supremacy or fascism, or what we'd call "MAGA cultism."
And yes, when doing this work, we all do sometimes have to ask ourselves, "Who can I talk to right now to have the biggest effect?" We each make those choices based on our own emotional bandwidth or "spoons" for those connections and conversations.
But as I pointed out to Nancy, while we may not personally have the time or energy to reach someone who seems far gone, no one is truly unreachable--something, someone, at some point can potentially reach even the most extreme folks. It may not be you right now, and that's very understandable -- we all have to manage what we can and can't do at a time when everything feels like a chaotic crisis.
So if your work, your calling is best geared towards talking to Trump-curious independents and disaffected centrists, by ALL means, pour yourself into that work -- it's VERY good and MUCH needed work!
But while you do that, (please do!) it may not be a waste of time for others to try to reach folks further to the extreme right. Maybe it's not our work personally right now, but I do believe it's still worth believing in the potential for change in even the hardest cases.
Thank you so much for sharing here, Trot, and for the efforts, connections, and conversations you're making in AL -- on any scale, that's fantastic!
Wow! I was reading this to learn more about having good conversations about politics. Now I realize it will also help me have more productive conversations with my patients and their families. Thank you so much! 😊
Yes, I call this work the Special Sauce -- you can put it to work in almost any situation, with anyone. A lot of our work in Smart Politics does help folks deal with family situations polarized by politics, but I've noticed since I've been doing this work that it's improved my listening and connection skills in everyday life. Thank you, Elizabeth!
I tried all this, and it did work to build connection which turned into a close friendship. Looking back, I realized that he was never engaging in good faith. He wouldn’t read any information that I shared, even though I read and commented on what he shared with me. And then, at the end of the day, when 47’s actions started having an effect on me personally in several different ways, I realized that deep down, my friend and I had different values. He was MAGA and did not stand for empathy, justice, or compassion. He was happy that someone was causing harm on his behalf. He was OK with the destruction. That’s when I ended the friendship. I can’t be friends with fascists.
Hi Nancy, thank you for sharing that -- I appreciate that you're out there trying, and I understand how frustrating it can feel at times.
We don't ever ask anyone to do anything they feel strongly puts them at any sort of risk, emotional or otherwise. You know the situation and the person best, so it's very fair that you stepped back when you felt you had to.
I'd like to just add a couple thoughts:
-- It can be tough, especially these days, to get folks on the "other side" to read information we share with them -- they have a lot of defenses up against that (plus, who among us ever really gets through all the things folks share with us in good faith?). If you talk to this former friend again, or others, what happens if you hold off on sharing information until you've found enough common ground on topics you and they are closer to one another's views?
-- I completely understand that you don't want to "be friends with fascists," and it's so hard these days when folks we felt close to or have a shared past with begin saying things that seem to support what we consider to be fascism or authoritarianism. But as I've said before, if we can find the strength and (sometimes immense) patience to hang in there, the reason we want to have these conversations is to help others slowly change their views away from supporting fascism and authoritarianism.
The work of Smart Politics is often about doing just that: talking to people we may consider to be fascists and racists, etc. That may or may not be something you personally can do in every situation -- you know what's best for you -- but it can be our larger, idealistic goal.
Sometimes we have to take a deep breath and see if we can sort out where a person falls on what we consider to be the "fascism" (or other "-isms") scale. What do they believe that makes us consider them "fascist"? How deep does it run? Is it because they voted for Trump? Or because they don't speak out against his obvious authoritarianism? Or do they personally expound on what we consider to be clearly fascist beliefs? And how committed are they to those beliefs? How long have they embraced these views?
Degrees of challenges vary -- some folks may parrot Trump talking points we find upsetting and even fascistic, but their actual investment in that thinking may be relatively superficial. Others may be much more deeply and frighteningly devoted to those beliefs. After engaging and talking with them one-on-one, you are the best judge of where they might be on that scale and how much you can or are willing to do to stay connected with them.
I'll leave you with one note: What we each can do is based on our personal assessment of the other person's beliefs and our own emotional spoons. We can't all do everything for everyone. But on a larger scale, even some of the most hardcore racists and fascists have been changed over time through support from others, including the work of Darryl Davis (who has helped dozens of former Klan members, including leaders, leave the KKK), or the cases of former white supremists like Christian Picciolini and Adrianne (formerly Derek) Black who once led racist organizations and gangs and now teach others how to others out of those lives.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis
https://www.daryldavis.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Picciolini
https://www.christianpicciolini.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrianne_Black
https://store.abramsbooks.com/products/the-klansman-s-son
So I absolutely applaud you for making that effort, Nancy, and I understand if maybe you can't be friends with fascists right now, but if at all possible, don't give up on them completely -- it can be slow going with almost imperceivable results right away, but your presence in their lives (to whatever degree is safe for you) can sometimes be the thread or lifeline they someday use to bring themselves back out of it.
Thank you so much for sharing!
Locke
and yes, I just realized I'm all hopped up on coffee this weekend, and I rambled on instead of actually practicing the Smart Politics approach itself! Gah!
So if you'd like to chat more about this, Nancy, I'd ask you what it is that makes you feel your (former?) friend is a fascist?
Thanks for asking the question. Several statements of his led me to believe he is in thrall of fascism. One is open admiration for Viktor Orban and Javier Milei—“they’re doing great things for their country, and are very popular.” The other is frequent use of fascist memes, like sending me a photo of a marble, Classical statue, with the comment, “we used to make beautiful things .” Framing anything other than. Classical art as @degenerate” is a fascist talking point. He is getting all this from right wing media and I have watched as he has become more radicalized over the past few years. The hatred of “DEI,” framing Musk as a champion of free speech, complete adoption of right wing narrative for January 6, etc. etc. etc. the toxicity of it all. It’s sad, because he’s one of the smartest people I’ve known and I just cannot bear to watch the destruction of his mind any longer.
Nonetheless it felt both freeing and tragic.
Hi Trot!
I love what you're trying to do in AL with the folks around you -- that's such an important part of this work and attitude. Thank you!
As I rambled on at great length in response to Nancy above, I completely understand if we feel we have to "triage" different types of folks who seem to have gone much further down some dark rabbit holes into things like QAnon, white supremacy or fascism, or what we'd call "MAGA cultism."
And yes, when doing this work, we all do sometimes have to ask ourselves, "Who can I talk to right now to have the biggest effect?" We each make those choices based on our own emotional bandwidth or "spoons" for those connections and conversations.
But as I pointed out to Nancy, while we may not personally have the time or energy to reach someone who seems far gone, no one is truly unreachable--something, someone, at some point can potentially reach even the most extreme folks. It may not be you right now, and that's very understandable -- we all have to manage what we can and can't do at a time when everything feels like a chaotic crisis.
So if your work, your calling is best geared towards talking to Trump-curious independents and disaffected centrists, by ALL means, pour yourself into that work -- it's VERY good and MUCH needed work!
But while you do that, (please do!) it may not be a waste of time for others to try to reach folks further to the extreme right. Maybe it's not our work personally right now, but I do believe it's still worth believing in the potential for change in even the hardest cases.
Thank you so much for sharing here, Trot, and for the efforts, connections, and conversations you're making in AL -- on any scale, that's fantastic!
Locke